IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

aeric
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IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

Post by aeric »

Hi all,

A bit of background about myself:
  • 41-year-old non-US national
    Been in Japan since 2001
    Associate professor at a private university
    Enrolled in shigakukyousai from 2009, back-paid pension from 2001-2009 because of eikaiwa negligence
    Starting IDeCo with SBI soon (paperwork almost complete)
    Intend to start NISA with monex soon
    Pension record is attached (but still quite a mystery)
    Nenkin net estimates my monthly pension at 65 years old is 28,877(!)
    I own my own property and have ~3 years of salary in savings
I understand that IDeCo and nenkin kikin share the same taxable limit of 64,000. However, due to my job, I can only contribute 12,000. Does this mean that I can still contribute 52,000 to nenkin kikin?

Am I missing something in the nenkin.net estimate? I thought it would be closer to 65,000 a month.

Any other advice for a relative newbie?
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Pension Record-page-001.jpg
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RetireJapan
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Re: IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

Post by RetireJapan »

aeric wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:53 am I understand that IDeCo and nenkin kikin share the same taxable limit of 64,000. However, due to my job, I can only contribute 12,000. Does this mean that I can still contribute 52,000 to nenkin kikin?
Nenkin kikin is only for kokumin nenkin payers.
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aeric
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Re: IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

Post by aeric »

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. Many things are still a bit of a mystery and I'm still getting my head around them.
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Re: IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

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aeric wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:53 am Nenkin net estimates my monthly pension at 65 years old is 28,877(!)
The nenkin net quote seems very low, considering you have up to 24 years to pay in yet, and if you are paying in via your kyosai it will be worth more than kokumin nenkin. Maybe they are projecting you to continue paying kokumin nenkin?
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aeric
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Re: IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

Post by aeric »

It looks like you're right. I looked at the numbers of my kokumin and kosei contributions and the estimation only has those from kokumin. Don't know why my kosei contributions were not included in the monthly estimation tool because the contributions are included in the records (attached) and a yearly(?) estimation is printed.

The records show that I have paid into kokumin for my eikaiwa years (back paid), and shigakukyousai from then on. I have an unpaid period of two years because I arrived in Japan when I was 22. The nenkin website says there is no kokumin or additional premiums I can pay.
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Re: IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

Post by bryanc »

RetireJapan wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:56 am
aeric wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:53 am I understand that IDeCo and nenkin kikin share the same taxable limit of 64,000. However, due to my job, I can only contribute 12,000. Does this mean that I can still contribute 52,000 to nenkin kikin?
Nenkin kikin is only for kokumin nenkin payers.
just to ask about this-if you are paying kousei nenkin I presume you can pay it?is there somewhere that shows what the actual yearly benefit to pension would be?
thanks
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Re: IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

Post by RetireJapan »

bryanc wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:30 am
RetireJapan wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:56 am Nenkin kikin is only for kokumin nenkin payers.
just to ask about this-if you are paying kousei nenkin I presume you can pay it?is there somewhere that shows what the actual yearly benefit to pension would be?
thanks
Nope, just for kokumin nenkin payers. It's to help them increase their pensions as they are much smaller than kousei nenkin.
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Re: IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

Post by bryanc »

thanks..but isnt there kosei nenkin kikin?
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Re: IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

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bryanc wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:55 am thanks..but isnt there kosei nenkin kikin?
Good question, actually :)

I just had a look for this and it seems to be an old version company DC or DB plans. Seems like it was largely replaced in 2002? I just skimmed it, so I may have gotten the details wrong.

Doesn't seem to be something that was ever available to individuals.

https://www.pfa.or.jp/qa/kosei/kousei01.html
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Re: IDeCo & Nenkin Kikin

Post by ClearAsMud »

bryanc wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:55 am thanks..but isnt there kosei nenkin kikin?
You are not paying kosei nenkin kikin likely because your company doesn't offer a kosei nenkin kikin plan, meaning that you are not eligible to contribute to one to begin with. As with other pension matters things soon get complicated, but kosei nenkin kikin was initially classified as a type of company pension plan (i.e., a third-tier pension) under which a company, by assuming responsibility for managing and administering the lion's share of the regular kosei nenkin pension, could make it possible for its employees to receive additional DB pension benefits (i.e., the employee pays more to the company, which in place of the government invests the extra amount on top of the usual pension amount, potentially yielding higher returns and a higher pension for the employee). In other words, it's a government-corporate hybrid.

After the bursting of the bubble, companies that were offering kosei nenkin kikin pensions started shifting to independent DB pensions when that became legally possible in 2002 (the year meantioned by RetireJapan), thereby relieving themselves of the obligation to make good on their assigned portion of normal government pension benefits. Kosei nenkin kikin plans could no longer be set up at all after 2014, although previously existing ones remain in effect unless the company has taken steps to dissolve theirs or replace it with a company DB plan, as the government encourages them to do (companies themselves, of course, are shifting instead to DC pension plans -- when they offer pensions at all). For practical purposes, the amount of extra money you can contribute toward a kosei nenkin kikin pension is limited to what your company's plan says is possible. It sounds as though yours is a regular (=two-tier) national pension.
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