UK/Japanese dual citizenship

[Tkydon]

This was just posed today in the Monday Read...

https://www.retirejapan.com/blog/the-monday-read-166/

This week’s links
Really interesting data on dual nationality in Japan: A “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy leaves many in the dark

The embedded link to:
https://features.japantimes.co.jp/dualcitizenship/

The article is mileading... The subject of the article, Hana Dethlefsen stated that she was compelled to make such a decision after getting caught up in the complicated legal web of Japan’s Nationality Act.

But this is not the truth...

“I had to give up my Japanese nationality in order to qualify for the JET Programme, which I did at age 21. My understanding was that I would have to give it up at age 22 anyway, so giving it up one year earlier wouldn’t have made a difference,” Dethlefsen said. JET is a state-sponsored program that invites non-Japanese college graduates to work mainly as language teachers at local schools.

She wanted to avail herself of a program that is ONLY available to non-Japanese, and so in order to qualify, she decided to surrender her Japanese citizenship and qualify as a German or Canadian.

If she had not had to specifically qualify as a non-Japanese for eligibility for the program, I doubt she would have ever done anything... There are a million ways she could have come to Japan, as she did not need to qualify for a Visa... She chose to take a slot from someone who had no other way to qualify for a Visa...

That's like relinquishing your Japanese citizenship so that you can qualify to buy Japan Rail Pass...

And another guy named James registered as a Gaijin at the Kuyakusho, even though he is Japanese... Presumably, in order to register as a Gaijin at the Kuyakusho he must have applied for, and been granted a Japanese Visa on his Foreign Passport, registered for a Zairyu Card as a Gaijin at Immigration, and registered a new Koseki Tohon at his Kuyakusho. When he registered a new Koseki Tohon at his Kuyakusho, he must have provided the details of his parents and grandparents... No wonder the people at the Kuyakusho were pissed off when they found out... Where was his Japanese Koseki Tohon? How do they now consolidate this Gaijin that never existed..., without having some kind of Naturalization Certificate ??? They must have had a really bad day, the day he turned up... And, he probably committed a criminal offence... I seem to remember someone like that in a thread a while ago.

Even if you had say Dual UK - Aus citizenship, you must travel in and out of the UK on your British Passport, and you are not entitled to the protection of Aus Consular Services whilst in the UK, and vice versa...

[kuma]

Lots of interesting points in this thread.

One small comment:

Even if you had say Dual UK - Aus citizenship, you must travel in and out of the UK on your British Passport, and you are not entitled to the protection of Aus Consular Services whilst in the UK, and vice versa...

My understanding is that the UK has a recommendation rather than a requirement that dual nationals (of the UK and another country) enter the UK on their British passports (if they indeed possess British passports):
https://questions-statements.parliament ... 9-03/41847

In contrast, the US appears to have a requirement for US citizens to use their US passport when entering the US:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... ality.html

[Tkydon]

Lots of interesting points in this thread.

One small comment:

Even if you had say Dual UK - Aus citizenship, you must travel in and out of the UK on your British Passport, and you are not entitled to the protection of Aus Consular Services whilst in the UK, and vice versa...

My understanding is that the UK has a recommendation rather than a requirement that dual nationals (of the UK and another country) enter the UK on their British passports (if they indeed possess British passports):
https://questions-statements.parliament ... 9-03/41847

This refers to a British Citizen arriving in the UK and claiming to be a British Citizen, though he may be travelling on a different travel document.
It entitles the British Citizen to enter the country as a British Citizen, though the travel document may not be a British Passport.
This is different than entering the country as a Foreign National.
Why would one get a Visa, or even a 90 Day Visa Waiver to enter the UK as a Foreign National if one has Right of Abode?
Unless, maybe, you don't have a valid passport or proof of British Citizenship...
A Standard UK Visa @ GBP100 is about the same price as a British Passport application...

This brings up an interesting question: If you arrived in the UK with a Japanese Passport and proof of British Citizenship; Birth Certificate, etc., would they stamp your Japanese Passport with a Visa Waiver, Permanent Right to Remain, or not stamp it at all and just let you go ???

https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship
Travelling abroad
As a dual national you cannot get diplomatic help from the British government when you are in the other country where you hold citizenship.
For example, if you hold both British and Chinese citizenship you cannot get diplomatic help from the UK when you’re in China.

In contrast, the US appears to have a requirement for US citizens to use their US passport when entering the US:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... ality.html

Also
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... elers.html
Limited Assistance Abroad: Local authorities may not recognize your U.S. citizenship especially if you do not enter a country using your U.S. passport. The U.S. embassy or consulate’s ability to provide consular assistance may be limited.

[JimmyK]

Hi. Many thanks for these replies. First time I’ve logged in since January! I think the general consensus of dual nationals never actually being forced to choose, is correct. I certainly hope so!

[Tkydon]

Hi. Many thanks for these replies. First time I’ve logged in since January! I think the general consensus of dual nationals never actually being forced to choose, is correct. I certainly hope so!

So long as they are born with dual nationality, they have to state their preference to be Japanese to the Kuyakusho by the age of 22 (20 in the future), but many do not do anything to renounce the other nationality.

This is not the case if a foreign national acquires Japanese Citizenship or a Japanese National acquires Foreign Citizenship, for whom it is enforced.

[bryanc]

This is not the case if a foreign national acquires Japanese Citizenship or a Japanese National acquires Foreign Citizenship, for whom it is enforced.
[/quote]

interesting-however although it is the case that JP nat acquires foreign citizenship it is enforced -i dont think it is the case that for a foreign national taking JP cit that it is enforced... it seems random and is controlled locally..as i understand you can take jp citizenship without giving up your orig nationality..or is that incorrect??

[RetireJapan]

interesting-however although it is the case that JP nat acquires foreign citizenship it is enforced -i dont think it is the case that for a foreign national taking JP cit that it is enforced... it seems random and is controlled locally..as i understand you can take jp citizenship without giving up your orig nationality..or is that incorrect??

Most nationalities need to renounce their current citizenship before being granted Japanese citizenship (including UK). Others need to do so after they gain Japanese citizenship.

If you lie on the application and retain your other citizenship (with a couple of exceptions that don't allow their citizens to renounce, including Mexico) and are discovered, your Japanese citizenship will be revoked. At that point you have no legal right to remain in Japan, as you no longer have a visa or PR.

Not a risk I am willing to take

[zeroshiki]

On your koseki at city hall, they have a note there whether you've proven to them that you've renounced or not. The only way to do that is to renounce and show them the document from your embassy saying that you've renounced.
Some countries allow you to do this but also give your a huge gaping backdoor back in by saying any natural born citizen can take back citizenship by just asking for it. So in theory, you could renounce, show this proof to city hall then go back to your embassy and take back your citizenship. If Japan catches you (not sure how but they've been information sharing across countries quite a lot nowadays) then they can strip you of Japanese citizenship.

[bryanc]

Hi. Many thanks for these replies. First time I’ve logged in since January! I think the general consensus of dual nationals never actually being forced to choose, is correct. I certainly hope so!

So long as they are born with dual nationality, they have to state their preference to be Japanese to the Kuyakusho by the age of 22 (20 in the future), but many do not do anything to renounce the other nationality.

This is not the case if a foreign national acquires Japanese Citizenship or a Japanese National acquires Foreign Citizenship, for whom it is enforced.

do you actually have to go and state your preference though?i dont think you do..certainly my eldest son hasnt

[Tkydon]

Hi. Many thanks for these replies. First time I’ve logged in since January! I think the general consensus of dual nationals never actually being forced to choose, is correct. I certainly hope so!

So long as they are born with dual nationality, they have to state their preference to be Japanese to the Kuyakusho by the age of 22 (20 in the future), but many do not do anything to renounce the other nationality.

This is not the case if a foreign national acquires Japanese Citizenship or a Japanese National acquires Foreign Citizenship, for whom it is enforced.

do you actually have to go and state your preference though?i dont think you do..certainly my eldest son hasnt

See this thread

viewtopic.php?p=20814&hilit=%E5%9B%BD%E7%B1%8D#p20814