UK/Japanese dual citizenship

[Tkydon]

Just be aware that UK citizens born abroad (like me) cannot pass on UK citizenship if their own children are born abroad. I didn't know this until the embassy in Tokyo told me when I got married

Not automatically by law, but you can still register them as citizens with approval of the home secretary.

IMO, it's all smoke and mirrors. There is no necessity to choose.

It is the law though, so I think it would be possible for a clampdown if the politics changed in the future. According to the law, the minister of justice can issue an ultimatum to people who have not chosen, and revoke their Japanese nationality within 1 month if they do not reply. However, there is no automatic loss of Japanese nationality for people that "choose" Japanese then fail to give up their other citizenship - so you can just do that.

There is a clause that says you must "endeavor" (努める) to give up the foreign nationality, the interpretation of which could also be subject to change.

Just thinking about this question, I believe making an application for British Citizenship for a Second Generation Child born outside the UK to a First Generation "British citizen by descent" UK Citizen Child born outside the UK would result in immediate Forfeiture of Japanese Citizenship, as the Second Generation Child was not Dual by Birth. There may be a slim chance of a loophole between 15 and 16 when the child could claim that the application was made without his/her consent... One should seek expert legal advice.

[adamu]

Just thinking about this question, I believe making an application for British Citizenship for a Second Generation Child born outside the UK to a First Generation UK Citizen Child born outside the UK would result in immediate Forfeiture of Japanese Citizenship, as the Second Generation Child was not Dual by Birth. There may be a slim chance of a loophole between 15 and 16 when the child could claim that the application was made without his/her consent... One should seek expert legal advice.

No comment on the actual issue without investigating further. Just a minor nitpick that the correct term for "UK Citizen Child born outside the UK" is, usually, "British citizen by descent" (as opposed to "British citizen otherwise than by descent"). There are exceptions though, including for those born outside the UK to a parent working for the crown, etc.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -of-the-uk

[RetireJapan]

Just be aware that UK citizens born abroad (like me) cannot pass on UK citizenship if their own children are born abroad. I didn't know this until the embassy in Tokyo told me when I got married

Not automatically by law, but you can still register them as citizens with approval of the home secretary.

I finally got round to reading that link, and it seems to say that as I was born abroad, and my parents were living abroad at the time, I would not be able to register my children automatically as UK citizens (not a big deal for me).

That would confirm what the embassy told me, which is that I would need to make sure the children were either born in the UK or lived there for 3(?) years in order to naturalize if I wanted them to be UK citizens.

[adamu]

Just be aware that UK citizens born abroad (like me) cannot pass on UK citizenship if their own children are born abroad. I didn't know this until the embassy in Tokyo told me when I got married

Not automatically by law, but you can still register them as citizens with approval of the home secretary.

I finally got round to reading that link, and it seems to say that as I was born abroad, and my parents were living abroad at the time, I would not be able to register my children automatically as UK citizens (not a big deal for me).

I think you're confusing the term registration, which is a specific term for people who did not automatically become British citizens, but are entitled by law to register if some conditions are satisfied, skipping the full naturalization process.

Because you are by decent, it's correct your children are not automatically British citizens if born outside the UK. But even British Citizens by decent like you can register children as citizens provided they are under 18 and you've lived in the UK for a continuous 3 year period after their birth - section 3(5) (and, it looks like before their birth too, if your parents are "otherwise than by decent" - section 3(2) - but then they also become "by descent" so their kids will have the same problem). But 3(1) is the clause I was talking about before. Basically as long as they are under 18, you can apply for a discretionary application if you think your case is good enough. For over-18s I think it's too late and they have to go the naturalization route (although I'm not sure about that).

This page is a nicer reference than reading the law: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... le-version

[RetireJapan]

you've lived in the UK for a continuous 3 year period after their birth

This is my point, assuming I live in Japan before and after the birth, there is no way to get citizenship automatically, right? Going back to the UK for three years is not necessarily something that people are going to be able to or want to do.

[adamu]

you've lived in the UK for a continuous 3 year period after their birth

This is my point, assuming I live in Japan before and after the birth, there is no way to get citizenship automatically, right? Going back to the UK for three years is not necessarily something that people are going to be able to or want to do.

TL;DR: Right.

It's complicated so very difficult to answer this kind of question in a way that would be general enough to all readers without just quoting all the rules. In your case as a British citizen by decent not working for the govenment with kids born in Japan, they would not be automatically British citizens, as you said. There are ways to register them before they are 18, which is not automatic, although it looks like they are entitled to an approval if you satisfied the 3 year in the UK rule, which you didn't. Or you did, but they're now over 18, so it's too late anyway.

Born in the UK to British parents or people with indefinite leave (PR): automatic
Born outside the UK to a British citizen otherwise than by decent: automatic
Born outside the UK to a British citizen by decent: not automatic. But you can register before they are 18 under some circumstances (described in the previous post). But as Tkydon said, if you do register British as a Japanese national, you lose Japanese nationality automatically.

[TokyoBoglehead]

you've lived in the UK for a continuous 3 year period after their birth

This is my point, assuming I live in Japan before and after the birth, there is no way to get citizenship automatically, right? Going back to the UK for three years is not necessarily something that people are going to be able to or want to do.

TL;DR: Right.

It's complicated so very difficult to answer this kind of question in a way that would be general enough to all readers without just quoting all the rules. In your case as a British citizen by decent not working for the govenment with kids born in Japan, they would not be automatically British citizens, as you said. There are ways to register them before they are 18, which is not automatic, although it looks like they are entitled to an approval if you satisfied the 3 year in the UK rule, which you didn't. Or you did, but they're now over 18, so it's too late anyway.

Born in the UK to British parents or people with indefinite leave (PR): automatic
Born outside the UK to a British citizen otherwise than by decent: automatic
Born outside the UK to a British citizen by decent: not automatic. But you can register before they are 18 under some circumstances (described in the previous post). But as Tkydon said, if you do register British as a Japanese national, you lose Japanese nationality automatically.

Flow charts are the the best way to illustrate these types of complicated scenarios. Blocks of information are too much for most people to process.

[adamu]

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Can you be arsed to follow the suggestion yourself?
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[TokyoBoglehead]

Code: Select all

Can you be arsed to follow the suggestion yourself?
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I am not a UK citizen, so I cannot be "arsed" as you say. But I appreciate that trademark snark.

And no, it was not a suggestion that you should do it yourself, just an observation.

[Tkydon]

https://www.citinavi.net/single-post/ja ... l-citizens