Rakuten Cash/楽天キャッシュ

[TBS]

I did exactly what they wanted and set it up to keep ¥60,000, since I figured if I'm charging Cash anyway, I might as well get the 0.5% charge bonus for Rakuten Pay too
...

FYI if you don't set up the auto-charge, you still have to charge Cash manually in order for them to take payment for the tsumitate order. You also get the 0.5% charge bonus from a manual charge.

As an aside, I also noticed Rakuten Pay is less flexible with points when you set it to use Cash instead of Card for purchases.
With card, you can select if you want to prioritise points, and if so how many. This is a nice way to use up exactly your time limited points, without consuming regular ones.
But with cash, you can only select "use points", not how many, meaning you're likely to run over into regular points too.
...

One strategy is to use the normal points in the 12th to 24th of the month window to pay the CC bill. Then on that day you will have 0 normal points, and potentially some time limited points. You can then spend these via Pay by selecting prioritize points, and it will pay with time limited points then Cash.

Another way is if the item is less than the total number of time limited points, you can just spend these via Pay with prioritize points option. It uses time limited points before normal points.

Is this all more hassle than it is worth? Probably

[adamu]

One strategy is to use the normal points in the 12th to 24th of the month window to pay the CC bill. Then on that day you will have 0 normal points, and potentially some time limited points. You can then spend these via Pay by selecting prioritize points, and it will pay with time limited points then Cash.

Is this all more hassle than it is worth? Probably

I'm willing to do quite a lot to squeeze every last yen out of Rakuten, but that's probably too much for me.

I don't really want to think about timings, I'd rather things just worked automatically. That's why I succumbed to letting them keep the float in rcash too. I do have a monthly reminder to pay off Rakuten CC with points, but I'm not going to attempt to save all time limited points until then and suddenly rush to spend them all . I might consider doing a manual cash charge at the same time though, if I don't like how keep works out. ¥3000/year of points is probably still justifiable

[beanhead]

I just changed my regular monthly credit card investment to this cash thing.
Looks like they have taken the normal payment to Rakuten Securities on 6/17 and then the Rakuten Cash payment on 6/24.
Cheeky move...

[adamu]

I turned the auto-charge off already. Just too noisy doing rpay <- rcash <- card for every purchase. Plus, it's less efficient to do regular small charges, because the percentage is rounded down (e.g. two ¥1500 charges would get 14 points, as opposed to 15 points for a single ¥3000 charge). I'll do what TBS does and charge manually once a month.

The fact that they treat rcash as a kind of points makes the Rakuten Points statement very noisy too, and adds more complexity to points in general. This might make me give up on using cash for anything other than Rakuten Securities. I will try it for a bit longer, as it seems as shame to give up the extra 0.5% on purchases.

[beanhead]

I have just set up it for the monthly tsumitate to Shoken as well.
When the promotion points disappear, I will stop it I think. As you said, becoming a bit too complicated.

[TokyoBoglehead]

I do not get the complaints, it is all automated. You do not need to babysit the processes. If you looking to add more manual steps to passive investing I think that is generally a mistake. Cancelling card payments and setting up cash took a few minutes at most...

If your hunting "point yield" SBI and Monex seems superior.

If you are looking for a simple and elegant system, Rakuten will never be the answer.

[TBS]

I do not get the complaints, it is all automated. You do not need to babysit the processes. If you looking to add more manual steps to passive investing I think that is generally a mistake. Cancelling card payments and setting up cash took a few minutes at most...

Yes, I agree with your general point. Playing Rakuten's games is like a bad vice. I know in 10 years I'll regret it, but I just can't give it up.

If your hunting "point yield" SBI and Monex seems superior.

Yes, if it is a case of comparing the different card and point schemes, SBI & Monex come out on top. However if it is a choice between investing using a Rakuten CC or investing using cash at SBI, it is actually a close call. Although SBI has higher points for holding, by my calcs it will take between 17 and 37 years for SBI to pull back the discounted purchase cost & earlier investment opportunity that the Rakuten schemes offer.

Once you have bought the units in Rakuten, there is also the possibility to transfer to SBI at a later date to benefit from the higher holding points - best of both worlds.

Playing all the games takes some effort, but I'm too cheap to leave this free money on the table.

[TokyoBoglehead]

Yes, if it is a case of comparing the different card and point schemes, SBI & Monex come out on top. However if it is a choice between investing using a Rakuten CC or investing using cash at SBI, it is actually a close call. Although SBI has higher points for holding, by my calcs it will take between 17 and 37 years for SBI to pull back the discounted purchase cost & earlier investment opportunity that the Rakuten schemes offer.

Once you have bought the units in Rakuten, there is also the possibility to transfer to SBI at a later date to benefit from the higher holding points - best of both worlds.

Playing all the games takes some effort, but I'm too cheap to leave this free money on the table.

Purchasing cost? Most of the Tsumitate Trusts trade free don`t they?

Earlier Investment? Are you treating a credit card like a 1 month margin loan with no interest?

[TBS]

Purchasing cost? Most of the Tsumitate Trusts trade free don`t they?

Yes, the trades are free. By that I meant the 0.5/1% points back you get from the promotion, which you can then invest.

Earlier Investment? Are you treating a credit card like a 1 month margin loan with no interest?

Yes, I personally do, but the calculations don't need to rely on that.

Just by being able to buy 0.5%/1% more units initially, and considering the compounding on that, it takes 12 years for SBI to pull ahead based on the SBI recurring 0.042% refund from the trust fee if the Rakuten points are 0.5%, or 25 years if Rakuten are giving 1% points back. Calcs assumed 6% annual growth of the investment.

If it is 1.5%, i.e. 1% from Rakuten and 0.5% from interest-free earlier investment, the number is 37 years.

[TokyoBoglehead]

Purchasing cost? Most of the Tsumitate Trusts trade free don`t they?

Yes, the trades are free. By that I meant the 0.5/1% points back you get from the promotion, which you can then invest.

Earlier Investment? Are you treating a credit card like a 1 month margin loan with no interest?

Yes, I personally do, but the calculations don't need to rely on that.

Just by being able to buy 0.5%/1% more units initially, and considering the compounding on that, it takes 12 years for SBI to pull ahead based on the SBI recurring 0.042% refund from the trust fee if the Rakuten points are 0.5%, or 25 years if Rakuten are giving 1% points back. Calcs assumed 6% annual growth of the investment.

If it is 1.5%, i.e. 1% from Rakuten and 0.5% from interest-free earlier investment, the number is 37 years.

Depending on the card SBI offers 3% with trust purchases fyi. And Monex 1.1%+

I do not follow your math though. Credit card Tsumitate payments take weeks to get started, there isn`t a lot of "time" advantage. I think this sort of thinking is bound to introduce some false conclusions.

All other costs being equal I think it really only makes sense to consider the:

A. Points you receive for free from making an investment
B. The points you receive by holding the trusts.

The cost of the credit card itself can be a factor for the higher yield cards.