Basic PFIC Rule Confirmation

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hoihoi
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Basic PFIC Rule Confirmation

Post by hoihoi »

Hi all,

With the whole IBKR Account transfer commotion, I will probably transfer my account to IBKR Japan.
I'm just concerned about PFIC Rules - does this only apply to what you invest in or the broker you use?

For example, I only buy US Stocks/ETFs with IBKR. Is PFIC triggered when I use IBKR Japan (foreign broker) or when I buy foreign assets with IBKR Japan? I believe it is the latter, but I want to check in with someone here.

I know it's a basic question, so I appreciate your patience in advance. 🙏
TokyoBoglehead
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Re: Basic PFIC Rule Confirmation

Post by TokyoBoglehead »

hoihoi wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:15 pm Hi all,

With the whole IBKR Account transfer commotion, I will probably transfer my account to IBKR Japan.
I'm just concerned about PFIC Rules - does this only apply to what you invest in or the broker you use?

For example, I only buy US Stocks/ETFs with IBKR. Is PFIC triggered when I use IBKR Japan (foreign broker) or when I buy foreign assets with IBKR Japan? I believe it is the latter, but I want to check in with someone here.

I know it's a basic question, so I appreciate your patience in advance. 🙏
IBSJ is the new acronym it seems for IBKR japan. Only one unified account type.

It is a Japanese brokerage. Holding US ETFs (US Domiciled that is) should be fine if IBSJ lets you. Japanese brokerages tradition do not due to onerous regulations, but IBSJ has said they will. (They have no obligation to)

A US Domiciled stock or ETF should be fine. -> NOT PFIC
A Japanese company like Softbank (not the phone one), or Orico or Emaxis Slim S&P500 -> PFIC.

(Note that identifying a PFIC is the responsibility of the trader, not the company or apparently the US government. So be careful of holding Japanese stock with too many foreign holdings. Probably no trading houses, etc...)

.....................

The danger is that they decide the paperwork for Americans to hold us position aboard is too much, and restrict purchases or force sales. I do not want to be a doomsayer, but I think all Americans should work toward a plan B.
hoihoi
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:06 pm

Re: Basic PFIC Rule Confirmation

Post by hoihoi »

Thank you for the response and clarification! If that is the case, I will definitely move to IBSJ as exploring Plan B at the moment sounds a bit tedious.

If you don't mind me asking, what would be a safe Plan B in your opinion?

I can only think of TDAmeritrade, but they could force US expats to give up their positions perhaps in the future?
Japanese brokers don't allow US citizens to invest...and I think the same applies to NISA and iDECO.

Would you say the only thing US expats cans bet on is to buy a house, bet on the fragile nenkin system and save an extra "2000万" (as Former PM Asou has suggested)?
TokyoBoglehead
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Re: Basic PFIC Rule Confirmation

Post by TokyoBoglehead »

hoihoi wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:32 am Thank you for the response and clarification! If that is the case, I will definitely move to IBSJ as exploring Plan B at the moment sounds a bit tedious.

If you don't mind me asking, what would be a safe Plan B in your opinion?

I can only think of TDAmeritrade, but they could force US expats to give up their positions perhaps in the future?
Japanese brokers don't allow US citizens to invest...and I think the same applies to NISA and iDECO.

Would you say the only thing US expats cans bet on is to buy a house, bet on the fragile nenkin system and save an extra "2000万" (as Former PM Asou has suggested)?
I'm not American, but I know many who have trading accounts stateside.

Charles Schwab specializes in this field.

Tradewise offers services to expats.

Some have a post box I'm Delaware and retain residency with a once yearly visit.

Many more setup their accounts before moving abroad after researching American expat advice.
Tatsuwashi
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Re: Basic PFIC Rule Confirmation

Post by Tatsuwashi »

I just went to the Charles Shwab website and when I chose Japan from the list of countries, the next screen said:

Your request to open an account cannot be processed
Schwab currently cannot open accounts for residents of your country/region. Please check back with us in the future.

Thank you for your interest in investing with Charles Schwab.
TokyoBoglehead
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Re: Basic PFIC Rule Confirmation

Post by TokyoBoglehead »

Tatsuwashi wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:13 am I just went to the Charles Shwab website and when I chose Japan from the list of countries, the next screen said:

Your request to open an account cannot be processed
Schwab currently cannot open accounts for residents of your country/region. Please check back with us in the future.

Thank you for your interest in investing with Charles Schwab.
You'll need to call them from what I understand.
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