RetireJapan

Oliver wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:49 am I remember that if I was pardoned from paying NENKIN I could only invest in Tsumitate NISA.
Is their a stipulation in the Eternal NISA for the people who are pardoned from paying NENKIN?

I don't think this is the case. You probably mean that you cannot join iDeCo? That doesn't change and the New NISA, like the old NISA, is not affected by Nenkin.

What adamu said.

Anyone living in Japan who is over 18 can open a NISA account.

Unless you're a dependent, if you're at the point where the government is giving you a nenkin waiver, you probably shouldn't be investing in NISA either.

zeroshiki wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:24 am Unless you're a dependent, if you're at the point where the government is giving you a nenkin waiver, you probably shouldn't be investing in NISA either.

That really depends on the circumstances. I would not set that as a hard rule.

All things being held equal 16,520/month in a Nisa over decades is going to yield better results (statistically), than the basic floor of nenkin.

Tsumitate Wrestler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:41 am

zeroshiki wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:24 am Unless you're a dependent, if you're at the point where the government is giving you a nenkin waiver, you probably shouldn't be investing in NISA either.

That really depends on the circumstances. I would not set that as a hard rule.

All things being held equal 16,520/month in a Nisa over decades is going to yield better results (statistically), than the basic floor of nenkin.

Not directing this at you but I wish we were more forceful in the English discourse on how nenkin is an obligation/tax. There should be no cost benefit analysis to it. "Choosing" to not pay into nenkin is how you get examples like RJ's recent video where the guy is 60 and has no pension and no job.

If the government deems you to be low income enough to give you a waiver, you should probably be trying to earn more money instead of trying to figure out if paying 16k a month to the NISA or the pension is better. Again, my opinion only.

I could not agree more! Also, NEKIN is deducted from your taxes!

Tsumitate Wrestler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:41 am...
All things being held equal 16,520/month in a Nisa over decades is going to yield better results (statistically), than the basic floor of nenkin.

While I agree with that, OTOH nenkin is a communal system--for the common good. And e.g. there is the disability aspect, if unable to work, and then not being able to contribute that amount to a Nisa.

That universality is somewhat analogous to the way hoken is assessed on income, rather than some set of metrics about an insured individual's risk.

*

And towards zeroshiki's comment: proof of pension payment might be a good requirement for a working/spouse visa renewal (not just when applying for PR). Not with the same strictness, which for PR I think you need an unblemished record for 2+yrs, just allow anyone who wants to continue to backpay/bring it up to date.

I'm not sure about other countries, but in the US if you said you didn't want to pay social security, people would think you were nuts (or maybe a "sovereign citizen" whacko). THere's no choice but to pay.

captainspoke wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:37 am

Tsumitate Wrestler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:41 am...
All things being held equal 16,520/month in a Nisa over decades is going to yield better results (statistically), than the basic floor of nenkin.

While I agree with that, OTOH nenkin is a communal system--for the common good. And e.g. there is the disability aspect, if unable to work, and then not being able to contribute that amount to a Nisa.

I would add that the spousal benefit for nenkin is an added return aspect that is difficult to capture in any comparison with investments outside of nenkin.

I'm not sure about other countries, but in the US if you said you didn't want to pay social security, people would think you were nuts (or maybe a "sovereign citizen" whacko). THere's no choice but to pay.

Clergy do have the option to opt out of Social Security in the US but it only applies to their income from their duties as clergy.
https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/ha ... -1131.html

TokyoWart wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:04 am

captainspoke wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:37 am

Tsumitate Wrestler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:41 am...
All things being held equal 16,520/month in a Nisa over decades is going to yield better results (statistically), than the basic floor of nenkin.

While I agree with that, OTOH nenkin is a communal system--for the common good. And e.g. there is the disability aspect, if unable to work, and then not being able to contribute that amount to a Nisa.

I would add that the spousal benefit for nenkin is an added return aspect that is difficult to capture in any comparison with investments outside of nenkin.

I'm not sure about other countries, but in the US if you said you didn't want to pay social security, people would think you were nuts (or maybe a "sovereign citizen" whacko). THere's no choice but to pay.

Clergy do have the option to opt out of Social Security in the US but it only applies to their income from their duties as clergy.
https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/ha ... -1131.html

This went in a different direction. If a student or someone on temp-disability, etc etc prioritizes Nisa over Nenkin I will not clutch my pearls. It is their financial future that is at stake.

I am talking about a year or two here or there though!

Many will end up getting stuck in the gulfs between 0-10/10-20/20-30/30-40 anyways. Paying into the void as it were.

Tsumitate Wrestler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:19 am... Paying into the void as it were.

I've never heard of it, and it would truly surprise me if someone temporarily working in the US, as in Japan, can get a Social Security (pension) refund if they leave the country after a few years. How about UK--is that possible?

With some limits, Japan allows that (generously, IMO). From reading about this, most of those leaving think of it as a 'bonus' or nest egg to help them get started somewhere else.